tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post2509647875875760038..comments2023-08-14T11:44:27.299-04:00Comments on Jeremiah's<br> Vanishing New York: Finding Nighthawks, CodaJeremiah Mosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11791516443125872364noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-36597104990334758092017-04-03T14:28:19.631-04:002017-04-03T14:28:19.631-04:00Hello Jeremiah
Thank you for your extensive resea...Hello Jeremiah<br /><br />Thank you for your extensive research and due diligence. I think you may have given up on the credentials of 70 Greenwich Ave a little to early in your search. It has many of the features the Nighthawk's diner possessed ( and the right location. A simple adaption of the rounded window feature drawn from the Flat Iron Building prow and you have Hopper's iconic 'loneliness in a big city' theme. By adding the unique Flat Iron curved window Hooper turned the Nighthawk's diner into a feature symbolic of all NYC. Here is a source (see link) that makes the the argument for 70 Greenwich Ave. rather well (I have added a link to an interior of a similar cigar store and soda store, note the coffee urn behind the fountain). All The Best John<br /> http://www.popspotsnyc.com/nighthawks/<br /><br /><br />http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dqXIF9MH3lk/S_nJeT8rcXI/AAAAAAAAKCM/VCqOwJQ3PQU/s1600/screen-capture-2.jpg<br /><br /><br />https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4a/5f/d0/4a5fd0e63a2bd838f1b160da85ff42a3.jpg Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05760658813231674186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-26059730972166176052013-11-11T22:42:07.408-05:002013-11-11T22:42:07.408-05:00Late to this party, but I really enjoyed the read....Late to this party, but I really enjoyed the read. Thank you so much for putting in the leg work to do this.<br />The results aren't nearly what we want, but there was the thrill of the chase, and for that thrill, I thank you.Trevor T. Trujillonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-6730524436987775242013-03-12T10:29:37.623-04:002013-03-12T10:29:37.623-04:00Before Empire Szechuan, that corner south of the w...Before Empire Szechuan, that corner south of the white tower location was the Greenhouse Diner (or Restaurant, i forget which word). it had an irritating 13 hour clock in the facade. I remember when it was being built and i can definitely tell you that some of the previous structure (which of course i cannot picture in my memory) was saved and reused in the Evergreen (and current) structure. That would be the Perry St fragment of wall that you correctly identified from the angel of the entrance. <br />of course memory is totally a liar, but i do seem to remember getting coffee there--but whether that is confounded by later actualities of getting coffee at the Greenhouse, or lunch at E.S., well..i can't say at this late time.<br />This is some impressive research! and great fun for the reader.brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17778155971754753257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-30487376762767985322012-08-01T20:29:56.308-04:002012-08-01T20:29:56.308-04:00The location of the Nighthawks diner is a couple o...The location of the Nighthawks diner is a couple of blocks from the house he grew up in on the corner of N. Broadway and Main Street in Nyack, NY. There is a pizza parlor there now. My great grandfather and his friends always talked about this diner and how they used to go there as kids. My father born in 1937 barely remembers the diner but always remembers my grandfather, uncles and friends talking about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-68906276015373508332012-05-18T10:59:41.212-04:002012-05-18T10:59:41.212-04:00nice article and great subject. to bad there is no...nice article and great subject. to bad there is not yet a definative answer. but i enjoyed the read and the passion put into the research.newwavepophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04464846388775752469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-35386155875790880142011-12-19T14:44:23.420-05:002011-12-19T14:44:23.420-05:00The photo of the building behind the movie theatre...The photo of the building behind the movie theatre on Greenwich Ave was last known as McCoy's... a bar that was demolished along with the the theatre in 1969. I grew up on Greenwich Street between 12th and Jane in the 50's and 60's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-85800754064877847102010-11-12T14:08:35.630-05:002010-11-12T14:08:35.630-05:00I have always thought it is an improvised scene th...I have always thought it is an improvised scene that was inspired by the corner of Perry and Greenwich Ave. When you walk on Perry approaching Greenwich and look at the shape of what was a restaurant there on the east corner, (now a salon) and look across to Fiddelsticks and Gottino, you can see how it might have been.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-16678079113830979902010-07-14T00:39:09.798-04:002010-07-14T00:39:09.798-04:00Being a brazilian who lived for a little while in ...Being a brazilian who lived for a little while in NY on 12th st. btw 7th and 8th avenues and who loves the city very much, your posts on Finding Nighthawks were just wonderful to read. Thanks!!!Andre Spinola e Castrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07192921584662386359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-68587342237362315292010-07-13T20:47:48.200-04:002010-07-13T20:47:48.200-04:00I'd like to hear some feedback from engineers ...I'd like to hear some feedback from engineers about the viability of such a construction in the first place. Custom curved windows and a sole thin supporting pillar? I'm a huge fan of the painting but as to the veracity of the source, I'm not convinced.PPhttp://PPphotoblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-3082300843372170542010-07-07T07:31:25.170-04:002010-07-07T07:31:25.170-04:00sorry Benny, what i think is that the Nighthawks d...sorry Benny, what i think is that the Nighthawks diner was not in that triangle, as much as many people want it to be. <br /><br />in that triangle, at the time the painting was done, well before and well after, was a White Tower hamburger joint and a gas station. the white brick building you see there was the gas station's garage.<br /><br />the only way Hopper's diner could have stood there is if he painted the White Tower burger joint.<br /><br />take a closer look at the photos of the triangle here, and see what you think.Jeremiah Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11791516443125872364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-8966685715203415372010-07-06T23:22:01.667-04:002010-07-06T23:22:01.667-04:00Here is my own story of the search for the Nightha...Here is my own story of the search for the Nighthawks diner.<br />In November 1987 I bought a Nighthawks reproduction from a hole in the wall art store on the west side of 7th Ave., across the street from the empty triangle. The price was $95. As he was wrapping it for me, the old man that owned the store pointed across the street and said: "That's where it actually was, the restaurant. And I remember Hopper very well in the early 40's".<br />Since 1987, I walked by the empty triangle many times, convinced that it was indeed the place. I did some research on my own and found Hopper's own reference to the Greenwich Ave. location.<br />The one thing that I have found <br />really persuasive is the brick building in the background. If you go back to Geenwich Ave. you will find it on the north side, across the street from the triangle, where it should be according to the painting. It may be 68 Greenwich Ave., where the Elephant & Castle restaurant has been since the 1970's.<br />I think that the relevance of that brick building to the mystery (and to the painting) must be looked at.<br />A few years ago I contacted Gail Levin, offering her my discovery, which she had made on her own, of course, and proposing that some official marker should be placed on that corner. I have discussed the marker idea with other people.<br />What do you think?Bennyhttp://zmirahe@yahoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-84964207306174902812010-06-30T22:43:33.005-04:002010-06-30T22:43:33.005-04:00Jamie, how on earth did you find that description?...Jamie, how on earth did you find that description?Jeremiah Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11791516443125872364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-24123455829689083632010-06-30T22:30:37.709-04:002010-06-30T22:30:37.709-04:00Jeremiah, I found a description of the mystery din...Jeremiah, I found a description of the mystery diner (or spot on which it stood) on Perry from the 1969 NYC Landmarks Preservation Commission Designation Report:<br /><br />"The restaurant constructed to the south of the service buildings<br />(#173-177) along Seventh Avenue South is one story high of white brick. It has<br />uniformly spaced windows separated by aluminum uprights with fixed<br />glass lights. Above and below these windows are panels with buff<br />colored diamond-shaped tiles. They are located on the Avenue side<br />toward the south end. A corner entry with brick steps and wrought iron<br />handrails is located at the corner of Perry Street. It has a low, triangular-<br />shaped canopy supported by a single Lally column at the apex.<br />This is the principal entrance to the restaurant. The Perry Street<br />side (Nos. 3-5) is of white brick with round-arched windows and entrance door giving access to the bar."<br /><br />at least we now know that it was white before schezuan village got a hold of it! Im still on the hunt or a photograph and still have some people to contact regarding this!<br /><br />Jamieshadeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12845191871973626447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-30419800964256714592010-06-29T07:22:15.746-04:002010-06-29T07:22:15.746-04:00i think a lot of things looked the same back then....i think a lot of things looked the same back then. soda jerks all wore those white paper hats. coffee urns were tall and silver. <br /><br />keep up the hunt! and keep us posted...Jeremiah Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11791516443125872364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-81347326844573222702010-06-28T20:55:45.979-04:002010-06-28T20:55:45.979-04:00Oh I am also still totally sticking with the idea ...Oh I am also still totally sticking with the idea of the "multiple real places assembled into one perfect imagined setting"! Right when you said "Dixie Kitchen" though, my brain clicked and I suddenly remembered reading that paragraph too. So much for the coffee urn idea! <br /><br />Im definitely keeping at the research. We WILL find someone or somewhere that has a picture of the mystery diner on Perry! Or maybe a shot of this "Dixie Kitchen"! I still have a few people to contact that may be of some great help!<br /><br />As always, Ill keep you posted!<br />Jamieshadeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12845191871973626447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-64223619203320862052010-06-28T20:01:12.924-04:002010-06-28T20:01:12.924-04:00Jamie, nice pairings. and the White Tower, as it w...Jamie, nice pairings. and the White Tower, as it was, looked pretty cool. Hopper might have taken pieces from it. but the coffee urns, i read in Levin's Hopper biography, came from someplace called the Dixie Kitchen. <br /><br />i don't know--i'm sticking with the composite story. the exterior of the White Tower really looks nothing like the painting. maybe the salt and pepper shakers, though!Jeremiah Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11791516443125872364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-2289775879900545042010-06-28T17:51:22.999-04:002010-06-28T17:51:22.999-04:00Jeremiah,
These are the White Tower images I was...Jeremiah, <br /><br />These are the White Tower images I was talking about, along with some of Hopper's preparatory sketches placed beside them. I know when you think of a White Castle today, you think of some commercialized burger joint, but back then they were a little different and after seeing these pictures again, I have a very strong feeling that a lot of the painting was in fact based off of the White Tower that stood in Mulry Square.<br /><br />Here is a coffee machine closeup from a random White Tower with hoppers sketch next to it:<br />http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9987/machines.jpg<br /><br />And here is the interior of a White Tower in the early 40s, complete with a patron that is sitting at that PERFECT hopper angle!<br />http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6354/diner.jpg<br />Also take note of the attendant and the shape of his hat and how it matches the attendant in the painting. When the White Towers first started appearing, they were known for having a staff that dressed like "nurses". This, along with the whiteness of the building was meant to invoke a hygenic image of the place because the majority of restaurants in this era followed health codes pretty poorly, if at all. All of the other diner images I can scrounge up from the 30s and 40s from NY show very dingy and dirty places...<br /><br />Jamie<br />http://www.shadeone.com/nighthawksshadeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12845191871973626447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-52041638282404136262010-06-28T14:47:55.057-04:002010-06-28T14:47:55.057-04:00I am not familar with New York records or permitti...I am not familar with New York records or permitting, but wouldn't a building permit have to have been issued in order to build a second story on the Chinese restaurant? An engineer would have had to review the plans for the existing building and approve the additional structure, wouldn't they? Perhaps knowing the date of the add-on would lead you to some info on the original condition of the building.<br /><br />Excellent writing. I really enjoyed every installment.Christanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-74453100442338343802010-06-25T13:57:13.435-04:002010-06-25T13:57:13.435-04:00Scott, a fake Nighthawks diner on that spot would ...Scott, a fake Nighthawks diner on that spot would be so weird, so wrong, in so many ways, that it would be kind of great.Jeremiah Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11791516443125872364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-21480772111356987572010-06-25T13:52:37.424-04:002010-06-25T13:52:37.424-04:00Great research, and a fun read.
Perhaps instead o...Great research, and a fun read.<br /><br />Perhaps instead of a fake townhouse facade, the MTA should build a fake facade that replicates the Nighthawks diner. Even if it weren't historically accurate, it would be an entertaining nod to the legend.Scottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-43547377163729776792010-06-25T12:52:42.946-04:002010-06-25T12:52:42.946-04:00thanks Luke. one of the Mulry grandchildren got in...thanks Luke. one of the Mulry grandchildren got in touch with me, asking about the diner--probably one of your uncles!<br /><br />i won't be able to make it, but hope it goes well. if you hear of any diner memories, please let us know.Jeremiah Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11791516443125872364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-62523596955446672902010-06-25T12:50:35.374-04:002010-06-25T12:50:35.374-04:00thanks Kev. maybe seeing the young woman means you...thanks Kev. maybe seeing the young woman means you're more of an optimist? don't know. <br /><br />and you're right, Lileks has a lot of readers. welcome.Jeremiah Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11791516443125872364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-47516227923817255262010-06-25T12:01:22.057-04:002010-06-25T12:01:22.057-04:00"It's like looking at the young-woman, ol..."It's like looking at the young-woman, old-woman illusion, where first you see a withered crone, then your brain adjusts and the girl she used to be appears before your eyes."<br /><br />Actually, I saw the young woman first, and it took a bit of work to perceive the old woman. I'm sure a psychologist could have a field day with that one, but I'll leave well enough alone. :-)<br /><br />I came here via a link from James Lileks' <a href="http://lileks.com/bleat/?p=7399" rel="nofollow"> The Bleat</a>; you may get a bit of traffic from his readers today.<br /><br />Great work and an enjoyable read!Kevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01433235586096305061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-84087114205165402372010-06-25T10:44:56.126-04:002010-06-25T10:44:56.126-04:00FYI. Tomorrow, June 26, 2010, descendants of Thoma...FYI. Tomorrow, June 26, 2010, descendants of Thomas M. Mulry will be having a rededication of Mulry Square. They are starting the day with a 10am mass at St Joseph's Church on 6th ave. <br />After the mass the entire group will be led by bagpiper to Mulry Square. My mom (80 yrs old) and her older brother will be there (grandchildren of Mulry). <br />You may want to show up to ask questions about their memory of the area. Thomas Mulry lived at 10 Perry and had 13 children.Lukenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-683382864156505640.post-33299733088599657822010-06-21T18:39:09.082-04:002010-06-21T18:39:09.082-04:00Wow, this was amazing. I'm a huge fan of Hopp...Wow, this was amazing. I'm a huge fan of Hopper and in particular this work. I grew up in Chicago and my mother was involved with the Art Institute where the painting hangs, and as a child I was fascinated with the work. (It later became the subject of my student film, which looked great, but was incredibly boring - as one teacher put it "the painting has more movement then your film.")<br /><br />Anyway, I sent your blog to my mother in Chicago who incidentally helped launched the country's largest WPA restoration project and, similar to what you did for this article, was trying to find archival photos Chicago public schools to pinpoint where certain WPA work hung - or in many cases - had been painted over!<br /><br />Great job on this. Really great work.pJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08011500984203616894noreply@blogger.com