Comments on Jeremiah's
Vanishing New York: Gleason's Gym

"projecting meaning" is not the definition of raci...

2008-05-21T17:34:00.000-04:00

"projecting meaning" is not the definition of racism, which is all about real oppression and painful discrimination.

projecting meaning is something all humans do all the time. i made an observation, based on numerous external factors and my own subjectivity, that there were race and class tensions being worked out in that ring.

by labeling observations involving race (and class) "racist" you dilute the important meaning of racism and take away its thrust.

i appreciate the wish to believe that race and class tensions are not present in that gym and in that neighborhood, and in many places around the city, but they exist. should we pretend not to see them?

what makes it racist is that he projected those me...

2008-05-21T16:41:00.000-04:00

what makes it racist is that he projected those meanings onto the people he saw, without talking to or knowing any of them, based on their skin color.

Sheesh, social relations so poisoned by history an...

2008-05-19T09:56:00.000-04:00

Sheesh, social relations so poisoned by history and animosity that to even look at things from a racial angle makes you "racist!!!" and the conversation ends.

Historical patterns flow through individuals, whether fair or fitting in the moment or not.

JM only pointed out a poignant moment loaded with deeper meanings.

Knee-jerk reactions happen when sensitive subjects are touched. But reasoned, open-minded convo should go on.

Web 2.0 just may save the world, or at least bitch articulately about it ending.

"was it discomfort raised by the image of a brown-...

2008-05-18T14:50:00.000-04:00

"was it discomfort raised by the image of a brown-skinned man beating a white-skinned man?"

No, it's the fact that you would somehow take pleasure in that aspect.
Furthermore, you associate the white boxer with gentrification. That seems like quite a reach, for as others have pointed out, there have been big white men fighting in Gleason's since its inception.

Your comment can't be taken as anything other than a racially-based comment, and you should be ashamed of that.

I want to agree with the poster above. I go to Gle...

2008-05-02T15:42:00.000-04:00

I want to agree with the poster above. I go to Gleasons and I've always been impressed by the comity of the place. I was intimidated by the professional boxers at first, but when I started talking to them I found a group of funny, friendly people eager to share their knowledge. Many of them still talk about Brooklyn with the pride and enthusiasm I felt growing up, instead of the bitter nostalgia of my other friends. I agree with you that the changes in the neighborhood are depressing. But I don't think they've infected the gym. Why try to twist a great place and a great sport into a race and class war?

I'd like to add a comment to this as someone who h...

2008-04-01T12:41:00.000-04:00

I'd like to add a comment to this as someone who has and continues to get into the ring on a regular basis in amateur boxing. I just came across your blog--I work in urban planning and community outreach and the luxury condos and developments drive me as insane as anyone. But this post struck me as ridiculous. I'm a white guy from a reasonably wealthy background but I've found boxing to be an environment where nothing about the person, where they come from, what they look like, or what their story is, matters. Boxers are very diverse and I've trained with those who come from a striking variety of backgrounds, from Russians with PhDs, to immigrant Italian women, to native Africans, to kids who grew up in "bad neighborhoods" and all are some of the most down-to-earth, genuine people I've met. We may fight during the intervals but at the end everyone hugs and congratulates each other and the mutual respect is deep. I've witnessed racial tension and rivalry before but never, ever in the gym, and you should be careful about judging the community and its attitudes without ever stepping in yourself.

i published that last anonymous comment because i ...

2008-03-24T13:50:00.000-04:00

i published that last anonymous comment because i find it concerning. as they sing in Ave Q, "everyone's a little bit racist" and i have no illusions that i am immune. that was not my intention here and i wonder what elicited this response.

was it my observation of racial and class dynamics? was it my choice of language, referring to skin color? was it discomfort raised by the image of a brown-skinned man beating a white-skinned man?

i call attention to this because racism plays a major part in gentrification in the city and it isn't talked about enough.

That might have been one of the most racist blog e...

2008-03-24T13:06:00.000-04:00

That might have been one of the most racist blog entries I have ever read.

Jeremiah, as I've said before, you are singular in...

2008-03-23T19:08:00.000-04:00

Jeremiah, as I've said before, you are singular in your reporting how the city is being killed off bit by bit. I see no reason to be elated that Bed/Bath/Whatever, K-Mart, Star$, the Trumps or any of the other short fingered vulgarians are still with us. One day, JVNY will be the source when historians address the mosaic of a massive obituary.

Thanks for reminding me that I need to get over an...

2008-03-23T09:29:00.000-04:00

Thanks for reminding me that I need to get over and check out DUMBO... I think they have an Arts Fest every Spring. I gotta get over there!

hey anon, i feel your pain. i really do. but if i ...

2008-03-22T21:14:00.000-04:00

hey anon, i feel your pain. i really do. but if i only focused on what remains, i'd have to call the blog "remaining new york."

that said, you might notice that most of what i do here is, actually, about what remains. most recently gleason's and chez brigitte. donut pub's in here too.

in general, though, i'm not a "look on the bright side" kind of guy. i think we've got enough of that in america. someone's gotta pay attention to the other side of bright.

i hope you'll keep reading--and if you've got ideas of places that remain and should be covered here, do let me know.

I have been reading this blog for awhile now and a...

2008-03-22T13:19:00.000-04:00

I have been reading this blog for awhile now and as much as I love your effort and totally share your sadness over what is happening to our city, I can't help but wish that you would more often focus on the things that are still here. I see them everyday. Last weekend I went to Carnegie Deli for the first time, wandered down 57th and went to Rizzoli, followed by a stop at Scandinavia House on Park. It was an amazing day that could not take place anywhere else in the world. Today I plan on hitting Donut Pub before walking around the Chelsea galleries. I dunno....I guess what I am saying is that NYC is too immense for everything that is great about it to be wiped away. As much as I will mourn the loss of Florent I know that I will find a new place that I might just love just as much. Not sure where it will be or if it will be old or new but I know I'll find it. You seem to be focusing on a very specific side of NYC passing away. And as much as I also love the slightly shabby, old world, traditional places, I am aware that there has, for a very long time, been many other faces of New York as well. I love alot of those faces, and hate some of the new ones as well. I would'nt be caught dead in a starbucks,chipotle,jamba juice, etc. For everyone of them there is still dozens of independent businesses nearby for me to support. I guess ultimately I would love to see a little less pessimisim here and a bit more focus on what you love about the city, because underneath all of the awful new buildings, and characterless yuppie businesses, there are still brilliantly unique places everywhere. Trust me, i feel the way you do most of the time, but I'm fighting to focus on the good, because otherwise I would be miserable.

Try Kingsway Boxing Gym on 28th & Fifth Ave in Man...

2008-03-21T18:35:00.000-04:00

Try Kingsway Boxing Gym on 28th & Fifth Ave in Manhattan.

Gleason's gym used to train working class Irish an...

2008-03-21T11:15:00.000-04:00

Gleason's gym used to train working class Irish and Italian boxers as well.

Comments on Jeremiah's Vanishing New York: Gleason's Gym